Note 702
* [jrf] mattock?
* [vsv] according to my dictionary “mattock” is a “digging and grubbing implement…”, or is it that you don’t think such would be appropriate for this job? of course the handles would be modified
* [jrf2] ok
Note 703
* [vsv] Possible INCON if you make a big deal of everyone having to come to attention. On the other hand, I do want the reference to “backsy- frontsy” here — surveying the novel, I don’t think coming to “attention” is so pervasive that it would affect the backsy-frontsy scene here February 16, 1991
* PRB Putting the supervisor to the question right there doesn’t seem quite the right action if the problem was that the work team had guessed their fate. TUF
Note 704
* In a way, this fight scene violates “vsv’s> Triad”: it helps with char and background, but does not really advance the plot
* Should make it clear somewhere the reasons why people at Hidden Island and Steel in particular are not fluent in Samnorsk: 1. Don’t have data set 2. The have one excellent translator. Might have this be a misconception briefly on the OOB, thinking that the translator is automatic 3. Arrogance instilled by Steel 4. Steel’s desire to keep Jefri isolated
* Get the samnorsk right: NO
Note 705
* CHKd mattock
Note 706
* NÆH : This feeling of panic for another might be the occasion for introspection later on the part of Steel. Ask if any consultant is thinking that Amdi is in on the Steel fraud
CHRON PRB Story has to be spaced well enough to allow pregnancy and useful puppy-hood for Woodcarver offspring. It would be especially good if the puppy can come along on the hike from Woodcarvers to Starship Hill
* ID at end Woodcarver: “student.” Tyrathect: “teacher.”
* NÆH : CHK with consultants on their psychoanalysis of Steel
* CHK should I have Tyra be close or distant to Amdijefri? If she’s close to early on, then it would be too easy for her to let the cat out of the bag.
* ? CHK when should Tyra be revealed to the readers?
* [vsv] comments related to Epilog:
REN Flenser’s Fragment statt Flenser Fragment — never followed up on this Actually Tyrathect might have some weird fondness for Steel:Steel is partly the biological child of FlenserTyra knows how he was abused Tyra’s reaching this conclusion might be evidence of character growth in her, coming to terms with the fact that she is mainly Flenser herself.
* [vsv] Image at the end: The threesome [what’s left of Steel] trails naked behind her, unhousebroken animals … piss in a puddle.
Note 707
* QU How about “fucking a corpse” instead of “having sex with…”?
* [jrf] bad idea
Note 708
* PRB : Do you really want to keep the sex ambiguity about Tyrathect?
* [vsv] Use interior view of gender as a measure of whether Tyra or Flenser has the upper hand.
Note 709
* [vsv] IMP :
* PRB of where to reveal that there will never be any more Flenser Fragments showing up: Can’t really put it on camera in c15 (“oct 15988”) and the next scene with these two is here in c24 (“apr ‘89”) which seems kinda late to learn. The realistic thing would have been to put it off camera
* [jdv] p384 [c24] need to RETRO why the rest of Flenser hasn’t shown up here rather than later
p516 [c30] where finally mention that fragments were destroyed
p385 creating of children is still obscure
Note 710
* CHAR Could have Tyra comtemplating partial suicide. The coupling is both loose and (truly, it may turn out) strong.
* CHAR Considering that Vendacious and Flenser are Woodcarver’s children, I think it’s clear there is the potential for deep villainy in her
* [vsv] I think this is under control:
* PRB Gotta decide on what sort of watching there is on the kids when they are in the ship. Why isn’t Steel there all the time???
* [vsv] In fact the fact he can’t be there all the time, and that’s why no one else is permitted to be. This also has some impact on the setup for the digger mutiny.
* [vsv] Use English:
* PRB Reconsider using Samnorsk in Tines speech. In any case, drop the Norsk usage for now, just to save time in looking words up and phrasing the result properly.
Note 711
* [vsv] CHKd sp “sufferance”
Note 712
* Seems like this confrontation would have really happened earlier
Note 713
* [vsv] terminology/usage: “Visitor” v “Spacer” later on
grep’ing shows Spacer only used in c37 (by Woodcarver people). So I think I’ll leave the Visitor references.
Note 714
* [vsv] IMP CHRON change. If you intend to make the beginning of jumpstarting earlier (~1Jan‘89), then you’re going to have to change the following discussion. Probably could do this as something of a flashback (which would allow you to also say when it all started), but then you need some question that this meeting is leading up to
Note 715
* [vsv] January 20, 1991 just deleted discussion of light speed; be sure that that is explicit at least later when they test the cloaks
Note 716
* [vsv] June 4, 1991 CHK CHRON
Note 717
* [vsv] [ur] June 4, 1991 CHK where/if he has done this before:
Note 718
* [vsv] SOLN This innocence angle may be the way to explain why they aren’t watched when they are on the ship. Note that there is reference here (and a couple of paragraphs down) to fact Steel knows there is something about the ship that is important to the Spacers
Note 719
* CHK if this is a trick you are using too often. It is a lot like the end of the last Pham/Ravna scene
* [vsv] February 16, 1991 I can’t find “no reply” or “no response” used anywhere in this manner.
* PRB How come Jefri didn’t have his own dataset? PRB Isn’t it kinda dumb that all the datasets were outside at the time of the ambush?
* QU How much inconsistency can be tolerated on the number of the pronoun associated with Amdijefri?
* ID Perhaps an epilog, a news item announcing, or speculating, that there has been a network partition
* PRB Should you have any comment somewhere about why Amdi doesn’t seem to be bothered by being inside the ship, although it made Steel very uncomfortable? — I think the wall padding is enough.
* ID There could be some neat irony in some of the jumpstart planning when somebody says how this is doing so much that the ignorant locals could never figure out (and then Amdi comes along and blows them away with some of his improvements)
* CHAR Maybe Pham Nuwen has some old weapons … including a slug gun. Could be used in fight with Riders if it comes to that NÆH
* QU Are the Johanna and Amdijefri separate misunderstandings laid on too thick? Are they too similar?
Note 720
* [vsv] June 4, 1991 “realm” v “domain”? I use “realm” in Ravna plotline and “domain” in Tines plotline
Note 721
* [vsv] Possible INCON : at the end of the novel, all the sleepers have been taken out of the ship.
Note 722
* [vsv] [ur] June 10, 1991 “month” problem hr sec
Note 723
* [vsv] PRB “Lord Steel” v “Mr. Steel”
* INCON possible: The view out the windows shouldn’t show anything far away; isn’t the place mostly enclosed now?
Note 724
* [vsv] IMP once you figure out the relationship between Sjandra Kei and Straumli Realm, it should be reflected here
Note 725
* [vsv] QU INCON kinda an inapproriate question for so late in their acquaintance?
Note 726
* PRB The apparent inconsistency of stopping work when it gets dark — and this being an arctic region. PRB If Ravna et al already know about nature of the packs, how come they don’t suggest the change that Amdi does?
Note 727
* [vsv] [ur] CHK INCON that the ship is properly enclosed at the proper times
Note 728
* PRB IMP To have an ending that is satisfying in itself (not like “ending in the middle of a sentence”)
* What next, Lieutenant? Johanna sceneLearn of pregnancy Vendacious plan for a well-timed attack Woodcarver’s growing knowledgeability
Note 729
* [vsv] CHAPTER Made this a chapter break January 14, 1991
Note 730
* BKG TINES another possible pack sex determinant: if female members are slimmer, there might be an overall difference in appearance and gross strength between male and female packs
* PLOT Santa Ana’s could be what slows up Woodcarvers attack — even though Steel is trying to make things easy for her
* PRB QU How to use Woodcarvers sophisticated knowledge of the Beyond in the plot. Again this has to be meshed with the apparent lack of knowledge that Steel has.
* [vsv] You do indicate the Woodcarvers cultural fluency in the latter parts of the story
Could have Tyrathect be more directly curious (though she can’t learn as much since she doesn’t have Johanna or a dataset.)
* Small PRB : I don’t think you are exploiting as much as possible the “looking in all directions” nature of Tinish posture
* Look up alternative words related to balcony, loft
Note 731
* [jrf] [ur] suggests delete preceding sentence. See inset>.
Note 732
* Be nice to say somewhere that the quilted curtains had very elaborate and decorative colored stitching (tapestries)
Note 733
* Try to do a better job with this translation stuff. Possibilities: More humor in Pilgrim’s editorial commentsMore uncertainty in his translation
* IMP CHAR Consider making Woodcarver a little less goody-goody
* [vsv] This ties up with the ending and with the treatment of Vendacious
Note 734
* [vsv] CHK CHRON INCON
Note 735
* [vsv] [ur] June 13, 1991 Aha! Here I note specific Woodcarver commentary about the personality of Steel (I bet Vendacious has assured her that Flenser is not reincarnated)
Note 736
* [jrf] who says this?
Note 737
* [vsv] hld has some specific comments:
* [hld] The trick for casting closed-breech weapons is to cast them muzzle up and cut off the last few feet (or less for small guns) of the barrel. The problem is allow on cooling. Casting breech up results in weak metal at the breech and brittle failure on firing.
Note 738
* CHK Gotta do some research on the first artry pieces. In particular, what does it take to punch a hole in a stone wall? Just how did gunpowder mean the end of castles?
* INCON Did you have draft animals in use when Pilgrim and Scriber arrived at Woodcarvers? — yes
Note 739
* [hld] Don’t forget wadding if using a load of loose balls
Note 740
* PRB Just another thing that might eventually be discussed by Pham Nuwen is the Dawkins analysis of Tines
Note 741
* QU about this micro use of thought italics
Note 742
* [hld] I think the hole is too big unless that is a really thin wall.
* [vsv] February 16, 1991 downgraded size of hole
* QU change Pilgrim for Scrupilo in this scene? NO
* ID QU There are various net idioms that you might consider including “Inquiring minds want to know”
* NO ID QU Maybe Straumli Realm was a Large Habitat civilization? It may be too young for that
* PRB QU Especially in this string of Johanna scenes, the emotional tension is too uniform. Same question to a lesser extent about the hook that I am using to end most non-action scenes.
* QU is pregnancy scene too much of an idiot plot? I don’t think so
* PRB Probably should have Ravna et al. speculate on how gender is assigned among the Tines
* TITLE Hah! See how naturally that title (“Among the Tines”) occurs!
* IDEA a program that lies in bragging about its performance suggested by [deleted]’s diagnostic behavior 02Mar89
* BKG Kherhogs were the name of the quadrupeds
* [ur] QU What does childbirth smell like?
* ID In general, Steel has a very low opinion of Woodcarver cannon (compared to his own): Heavy Short range Blow up oftenAre somewhat debilitating to gun crews even when they don’t blow up!
Note 743
* QU is the withdrawn-ness image at the end of this paragraph jarring?
Note 744
* QU is gunmetal image inappropriate?
* NÆH : Be interesting to see Steel’s reaction to the pregnancy and the gun test.
* A problem discussed elsewhere in notes: Apparent INCON : In Blabber, a Transcend artifact (the ansible) is especially powerful, yet with the bottom lugger, you make a big point of simplicity for success at the Bottom of the Beyond. (Similar comment about agrav and the bottom lugger.)
Note 745
* You may want to change the count on Woodcarver, so that you don’t have get rid of any members (She’s listed as a 5some in Char.txt at 05Mar89 — 3 female and 2 male)
* [vsv] I think okay; this would take her to 7; but you might remark at the epilogs that she’s a little bloated
* “Scrupilo will be dopey for a tenday.”
* NÆH : ID Maybe it could be Johanna that has the insight about Tines slow progress in the past
* NÆH : Pham Nuwen to Blueshell, in explanation: “Steel, an ancient composite material, one of the first to be made.”
Note 746
* [vsv] I deleted the rest of paragraph since it didn’t seem to make good survival sense February 16, 1991 FRAG : few hours. Two of me was pregnant, and once a pack begins birthing it usual happens within a day.”
Note 747
* BKG How many babies should Woodcarver have had in all? char.txt says she is about 600y old, and a 5some. If the average member s
pan is 30 years, then just to maintain herself (incestuously) she needs 5*(600/30) = 100. And let’s say about 50 to 100 more with other packs (I’m just counting ones that she bore). TINES average pack birthing rate would be 5/30y
Note 748
* IMP QU can I get away with using both “Pilgrim” and “Peregrine” in regard to Wickwrackscar? If so, should there be some criterion for choice? REN
Note 749
* [vsv] INCON The enormous landers in Blabber, again compared to the bottom lugger — course, OOB is somewhat ad hoc especially after the fire IMP
This is just another reason why you have to discuss the agrav (or lack of agrav) carefully in this novel
BKG ID Without short-term memories (or with problems with them), I think you’d get rechecking pathologies similar to obsessive/compulsive disorder
Note 750
* ICON Problem with name Wickwrack scar as rendered into the language of this writing (actually there’s probably a problem with all non-commond- noun pack names). TUF