Isaac retorts back at Adam heatedly. “Well if they are all wrong, what do you believe the plan of God to be? You seem to have definite thoughts on the subject. How is God going to save humanity and have them as his children? It's easy to complain and pick ideas apart. It's far more difficult to give a seamless, Bible based plan where humanity receives salvation.”
“I don't have a plan like that,” Adam admits.
“I'm not surprised in the least,” Isaac says snidely. “Most people can only pick apart ideas of their intellectual superiors, while they don't have a single original thought of their own.”
“Yup. You got me figured out,” Adam readily admits. “I don't have one original thought about the plans God has for humanity. But I will share with you the plan that God has described in the Bible. I can guarantee that it isn't mine and that it's all God's. But first we need to finish discussing how the immortal soul idea is not anywhere to be found in the Old Testament. If it had been there the Pharisees would have found it, but as N.T. pointed out, they believed in a physical body resurrection that has two distinct parts, death for a while, then a resurrection back to a physical life.
It was the pagans that had the concept of an immortal soul that became a disembodied spirit after death. As Mr. Wright described, they believed in a one step process, just like the belief that Christians go directly to Heaven to be with Jesus when they die and sinners go directly to Hell for torment.
God modified Paul's traditional Pharisaical belief in the two-step resurrection through the example of Jesus, who after being completely dead, was resurrected to a new body that was not just physical, but made up of spirit as well. This spirit-physical body is what those who are called and accept Jesus in this life will be resurrected into, when Jesus returns to the earth. Until then, they sleep in their graves, a two-step process. Just like the example Jesus left us.
You see, N.T. Wright was not out to discover how the plan of God was to unfold. He was looking narrowly at where the idea of a bodily resurrection came from, to set theologians and clergy that taught Jesus wasn't bodily resurrected straight. N.T.'s book also showed the history of the immortal soul belief and how it isn't biblical. A fact that Mr. Wright personally ignores, as he seems to believe in a personal spirit life somewhere after we die. A one step process, just like the Greek philosophers believed in. In his book he talks about going to be with Jesus after death, which is fine if you are a Christian, but he doesn't provide much information, or hope, for those who are not. Where do all the non-Christians go? What hope is there for them?”
“OK!” Isaac exclaims exasperatedly. “N.T. doesn't appear to believe the same as the Pharisees. But Jesus didn't like them either. They were the ones who had Jesus crucified. Why should N.T. agree with what they believed?”
“Because they believed the Old Testament,” Adam replied passionately. “They knew the word of God up to that point in time, and having an immortal soul was not included in their beliefs, which proves that if you want to stay true to what the Bible teaches in the Old Testament, you won't either.”
“Well the New Testament tells me that I am born again of the Holy Spirit. It tells me that if I believe in Jesus I will never die, that I now have eternal life,” Isaac states frantically, growing increasingly red faced.
“Yes,” Adam replies. “That is what you will inherit. Those things will come true for you, in the future. You are an ‘heir’ to the promise, not a ‘possessor’ of it. You do not have it now, today, in this life.” Letting the air out of his driver’s seat’s suspension, Adam drops within arm’s reach of the floor. Bending sideways towards his side window he reaches down to the floor with his left hand. From under his gloves, by the fire extinguisher, he retrieves a razor knife. Returning the seat to its normal ride height, he shuffles the knife to his right hand. Opening it so that about four inches of the blade is exposed, he holds it out to Isaac. Looking Isaac in the eye he states stone-faced, “One way to prove it for sure, cut your throat and we’ll see how immortal you are!”
Isaac gives Adam a long look of disdain, then replies, “Weren’t you going to tell me God's plan for humanity.”
“I suppose you see my point. Feel free to check all of my scriptural references,” invites Adam, as he closes the knife and drops it back on the floor by his door.
“Oh don't worry. I’ll be checking all of them for accuracy,” snarled Isaac.
“I believe you are aware of the fact that humans are mortal and when they die they are dead, with no hope of a future apart from the grace of God. I won't recover that ground,” states Adam. “I will start with the resurrections as they occur in order with the return of Jesus to the earth.”
“Resurrections?” questions Isaac skeptically. “You mean there are two of them?”
“No. There are not two of them. There are several,” Adam says patiently. “One resurrection for each group of people, but you will get me side tracked if I try to explain more now, just wait and you will see how it all works out. God will make sure everyone has an opportunity to accept his offer of life. If anyone willingly refuses his offer of life, he will reluctantly give them what they desire and let them reject eternal life and have death instead.”
Exhaling heavily, Isaac reluctantly gets himself ready to look up the scriptures Adam will eventually refer too. “OK. You can start now. I'm listening,” Isaac says with a whine.
Clearing his throat noisily, Adam roles down his window and hoping to miss the trailer behind him, spits out of it as far as he could. Wiping his mouth with the back of his hand he turns to Isaac and without missing a beat says. “Before Jesus returns, the tribulation is in full swing. The church is in a place of safety and the two witnesses are preaching to the world.
There are different thoughts on how long the tribulation lasts, some think seven, others say three and a half years. I think the man of perdition and the beast are in charge for a total of seven years, but they don't start persecuting Christians until the last three and a half years. So the tribulation part is three and a half years long.”
“OK. Stop now till I find those references,” Isaac interjects. “I have heard about that controversy and have been wondering where people get their time lines from.” Doing some word and topic searches on Adam's Bible-program laden lap top, Isaac finds some relevant scriptures and reads them aloud.
“Revelation 12:14-17
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This is about the church being safe for three and a half years, then some of its, seed, being persecuted. Maybe those seed, are people who herd about Jesus before the church fled. Like real seeds starting to grow, but don't become Christians until after the church is taken to a safe place and they, after becoming Christians, are persecuted during the tribulation.”
“That could be. I don't think there are many verses that talk about them other than in the book of Revelations,” Adam agreed.
“Here are the two witnesses preaching to the world,” Isaac continued.
“Revelation 11:3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
That sounds like three and a half years, but I’d have to do the math,” Isaac approximated.
“Here is a bunch of scriptures that support three and a half years of persecution.
Revelation 11:2
But the court which is w
ithout the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 13:5-7
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Revelation 17:6
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
Matthew 24:21-22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Daniel 12:7
Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
Here is the verse that talks about trouble coming in the middle of the week. You have to use a day for a year interpretation. As well, there is debate about when this was to happen, some claim that it has already taken place.
Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
All the different time line possibilities can get confusing, but I do agree with you that there will be a tribulation and it will last for three and a half years. It will be a terrible time to be alive for those who are Christians. Things will be so bad, that if God doesn't intervene, no one would be left alive.
Revelation 17:6
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
Matthew 24:21-22 King James Version.
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mark 13:19-20
For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”
“Those are all good verses to highlight my points,” Adam agrees. “I don't get all that worried about the seven year thing. It makes sense to me either way, if it's included or not. The three and a half years of tribulation is very straight forward to my understanding.”
“Yes I agree with you about that, but it is nice to see where others are getting their ideas from,” Isaac pointed out. “OK, I am satisfied with your references, so you can continue with your ideas, what happens next.”
“No, no, no, no, uh-uh,” Adam said shaking his head while wagging his finger at Isaac. “I told you, this is not my story or ideas. If it isn't from the Bible then it's not worth anything, but if it is accurately understood from the scriptures, then we had better believe it.”
“Beeeg your paaardon,” Isaac says over dramatically. “Please continue explaining the plaaan of God using, Biiible scriptures.”
Adam rolls his eyes and frowns at Isaac. “Just remember, this knowledge is coming from the word of God.” Pausing for a moment, Adam picks up the story where he left off.
“Alright, Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation. As he descends from the clouds, the dead believers are resurrected and rise to meet him in the air. Then those that believe in him, who are alive, are changed into their new spirit bodies and they all join him in the air as he continues to descend back to the earth to fight the Beast at the battle of Armageddon.”
“Now we have covered the verses that talk about this resurrection before. So I know about them,” Isaac states confidently. “But I better find the ones about Armageddon.” Typing out his inquiry Isaac gets an almost instantaneous response.
“Here it is describing the battle in Revelation 16.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
And again, talking about the same battle but not using the name Armageddon.
Revelation 14:14-20
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Wow it sounds like quite a battle,” Isaac says wide eyed. “It's no wonder that every eye will see Jesus when he returns. I'm not sure how the secret rapture fits in with Jesus coming back and snatching his believers away, if this describes his return to the earth.”
“That's why we shouldn't be afraid to prove all things against what the Bible tells us. It’s easy to get carried away with the popular beliefs of the day, thinking they must be right if everyone else believes them,” Adam says. “Finding Bible truth is a bit like panning for gold. You put a shovel full of gravel and dirt in your pan and then you slowly wash away all the light stuff. Soon you only have the heavier bits left. Then you rinse them some more until only the specks of gold are left.”
“How is that like reading the Bible?” Isaac questioned irritated.
Adam looked over to see Isaac frowning
at him. “The gravel and dirt are Bible verses,” Adam said. “You have to inspect each one for bits of truth on the subject you’re studying. Then you take all of the verses that pertain to your topic and see what they teach you. As we have found out in our recent conversations, we may think a verse tells us something that it doesn’t.”
“Oh. I get it now,” Isaac grunts contentedly. “It's not a great analogy. Here is more about the battle, only we are given more information as the Beast and false prophet are now thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 19:11-21
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”
“Any more?” Adam asked as he adjusted himself in his driver’s seat.
“No, that should prove your point. What’s next?” Isaac demanded.
Chapter 13
New World Order