“And there was nothing that you could do? You’ve got forty years and a hundred pounds on the girl.”
“The party was going on right outside the door. I knew how this was going to look. I was naked. She was naked. What could I do?”
It was a brilliant plot twist—one that ultimately allowed Jordan to get off scot-free.
But the plot twist that Epstein’s own story ended up taking on the day of Alan Dershowitz’s deposition at a Broward County, Florida, courthouse was even more surprising.
“There was a criminal extortion plot,” Alan Dershowitz told Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell’s lawyer, Jack Scarola, on October 15, 2015.
“Your clients were involved.”
Bradley and Cassell had sued Dershowitz in Broward County for defamation—payback for extremely negative comments the law professor had made in the media.
Dershowitz had countersued. His reputation was on the line, and he had come armed for battle.
“I’m thrilled they sued me,” he’d told reporters. “In the end, someone will be disbarred. Either it will be me or the two lawyers.”
But if Dershowitz was swinging for the fences in his struggle to keep his hard-earned reputation afloat, he still had a bombshell to drop. When deposed by Scarola, he proposed his own theory about why Virginia Roberts had named him, along with Prince Andrew, as one of the men who had sexually abused her at Epstein’s New Mexico ranch, in New York City, and in Palm Beach.
A theory that implicated the lawyers who were suing him in a much larger conspiracy.
According to Dershowitz, Brad Edwards pressured Virginia Roberts into identifying Dershowitz as one her assailants.
Dershowitz said that Edwards did this so that they could blackmail Jeffrey Epstein’s patron Leslie Wexner for one billion dollars.
Roberts lied about him, Dershowitz maintained, to give Wexner an idea of what would happen to him if Edwards’s demands weren’t met.
Furthermore, Dershowitz said, he had proof.
CHAPTER 66
Excerpts from the Deposition of Alan Dershowitz: October 15, 2015
9:46 a.m.
Q:In an interview with Hala Gorani on January 5 of this year, broadcast on CNN Live, you said, “I have a superb memory.” Do you acknowledge having made that statement?
A:I have a superb memory, so I must have made that statement. My mother had an extraordinary memory, and when I was in college and I was on the debate team, my mother allowed me to debate on the Sabbath, which was Jewish rest day, only on the condition that I not take notes or write. And at that point I discovered that I have a very good memory and don’t have to—generally didn’t have to take notes. My memory, obviously, at the age of seventy-seven has slipped a bit; but do I have a very good memory, yes.
10:18 a.m.
Q:Which of my clients are you swearing under oath encouraged Virginia Roberts to include allegations of an encounter with you at the New Mexico ranch?
A:Both of them—both of your clients, both Judge Cassell and Mr. Edwards—were both involved in encouraging [their] client to file a perjurious affidavit that they knew or should have known was perjurious recently when they sought to file another defamatory allegation in the federal proceeding.
Q:Was the arrangement such that what you are charging Bradley Edwards and Professor Paul Cassell with doing was suborning perjury?
A:Absolutely. If you ask me the question, I am directly charging Judge Cassell and Bradley Edwards with suborning perjury. I have been advised that Virginia Roberts did not want to mention me, told her friends that she did not want to mention me. And was, quote, pressured by her lawyers into including these totally false allegations against me. Yes, your clients are guilty of suborning perjury.
Q:Who told you that Bradley Edwards pressured Virginia Roberts into falsely identifying you?
A:A friend of Virginia Roberts who called me out of the blue and told me that she was horrified by what was happening to me and that she recently had meetings with Virginia Roberts and Virginia Roberts had told her that she never mentioned me previously. That the lawyers pressured her into mentioning me. And mentioning me over her desire not to mention me, yes.
10:20 a.m.
Q:What was the name of the person?
A:Her name is—her first name is Rebecca.
Q:Yes.
A:I don’t know the last name.
Q:Did you attempt to find out her last name?
A:I have her last name written down, but—
Q:Where?
A:It’s in my—in my notes. And I could get it for you….
Q:When did you write Rebecca’s name down?
A:When she—when she first called me—let me be very clear, since you’ve asked me the question.
At first her husband and she called me on the phone. They would not give me their names. But they told me [the] story. We had a series of phone conversations in which I asked them, please, to tell me their names. And after a period of time, after they told me the story in great detail, she was willing to give me her name. She asked me to promise that I would not disclose her identity without her permission. I have been trying to call her. Called her as recently as this morning and last night.
I want to recall—I don’t think I called her this morning. I called her twice last night to try to get her permission to reveal her complete name and identity. But I have the name, and I will be happy to give it to you. I just don’t have it off the top of my head.
10:23 a.m.
Q:Would you tell us how many phone conversations [you had] with this person Rebecca?
A:More than six. Probably between six and ten, maybe closer to ten. The first few [times] she called me, and after I got their number I called her a number of times.
Q:What is her husband’s name?
A:Michael. Different last name from hers, but again.
Q:Where do they live?
A:Palm Beach. Or West Palm Beach, in the Palm Beach area. They have been friends of Virginia Roberts since she was a young child.
Q:Were there any witnesses to any of these phone conversations other than Rebecca, Michael, and you?
A:Yes.
Q:Who?
A:My wife.
Q:When did the first conversation occur?
A:I can probably get you specific information about that. But it was months ago. When the story was in the newspapers, she called and related the entire story to me and related to me that it was part of a massive extortion plot.
10:25 a.m.
Q:Did you take contemporaneous notes of those phone conversations?
A:No. I took note of names, but not really notes of the substance, no.
Q:Have you ever made notes with regard to the substance of any communications that you allegedly had with Rebecca and/or Michael?
A:I didn’t “allegedly” have these conversations. I had these conversations. And I don’t recall taking notes of those conversations.
10:44 a.m.
Q:How many phone calls did you have with this person Rebecca before she informed you as to the reason why she was calling you?
A:She informed me the first time.
Q:The very first conversation.
A:Yes.
Q:How many phone calls was it before she asked you for money?
A:She never asked me for money.
Q:How many phone calls was it before her husband asked you for money?
A:I was never asked for money, ever.
Q:Do you know how it is that these people knew how to contact you?
A:They told me they went to my website and got my number and left a message for me to call. Yeah, that’s what happened. Oh, no; they sent me—they went on my website and sent me an e-mail and asked me—and the e-mail had a blank name but a way to respond. And so I responded with my phone number and they called, is my recollection. That’s my best recollection.
10:45 a.m.
Q:So from the very first conversation that you had with this person, you had information indicating
that this person was informing you that Bradley Edwards had engaged in unethical conduct, correct?
A:Let me just be very clear what she said to me. She said to me that she had been told directly by her friend Virginia Roberts, who stayed with her overnight for a period of time, that she never wanted to mention me in any of the pleadings. And that her two lawyers in the pleadings, or her lawyers who filed the pleadings, pressured her into including my name and details.
Q:Did Rebecca ever suggest to you that the details sworn to by Virginia Roberts were false?
A:She certainly suggested that, yes. She mentioned to me that Virginia Roberts had never, ever mentioned [me to her], among any of the people that she had had any contact with, until she—until she was pressured into doing so by her lawyers, yes.
Q:So from the very first conversation, the impression you had was that this was a witness who could provide information that Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell had acted unethically and dishonestly, correct?
A:I wasn’t sure she could provide the information because she was very reluctant to come forward. She didn’t want to be involved. But I knew she had provided me with information, yes, but I didn’t know, and I still don’t know, whether she is prepared to be a witness. I don’t know the answer to that question.
11:08 a.m.
Q:Was any request made by you for a meeting?
A:Yes.
Q:Let me back up then, if I could, please. Because what I want you to do, based upon your superb memory, is to tell us in as much detail as you possibly can recall everything that was said….
A:I’m not sure the request for the meeting came in the first call or the second call….The first call was basically, I’d really like to talk to your wife [Rebecca] about this. I’m happy to fly down. I’m happy to talk to you on the phone. And we left it that they would think—that she would—that he would ask her to think about it. And that I could call back in a—in a few days and find out what her—what her current feelings were.
Q:Where were you when you received this phone call—or when you made this phone call? Sorry.
A:I think I was in New York.
Q:Do you know whether that phone call was made on a cell phone or a landline?
A:I don’t remember.
Q:Have you attempted to gather your telephone records for purposes of responding to discovery requests in this case?
A:I left that to my lawyers. I know that we did produce telephone records during the relevant periods of time when Virginia Roberts knew Jeffrey Epstein, and those telephone records established that I could not have been at the locations and at the times that Virginia Roberts claimed to have had—falsely claimed to have [had] sexual contact with me.
Q:I promise you we’re going to get to those.
A:Good.
Q:Promise you. Along with all the flight logs that you claim exonerate you.
11:11 a.m.
Q:Let’s go to the very second contact that you had with either Michael or Rebecca. Who initiated the second contact?
A:I think I did. I called and got Michael on the phone.
Q:Where did you call from?
A:I think New York.
Q:Tell me in as much detail as your superb memory allows you to recall everything that was said during the course of that phone conversation.
[Dershowitz’s lawyer]: Let’s object to the form and the continued use of the word superb. He’s described his memory. That’s your characterization. Go ahead.
Q:No, I think that that was Mr. Dershowitz’s characterization, which I have adopted.
[Lawyer]: Okay. Go ahead.
A:I called, spoke to Michael. I asked Michael if he had spoken to his wife. She said yes, and she was still reluctant to talk to me.
Q:I’m sorry—she said yes when you asked Michael if he had spoken to his wife?
A:He said yes. And that she was still reluctant to talk to me. I suggested to him that perhaps she could talk to me briefly just so that she hears what I have to say. And he could listen and remain on the phone, and she could stop at any time she wanted. And there came a time during that conversation when she did get on the phone, and here’s what she told me. She said she had grown up with Virginia Roberts. That they were very, very close friends as young people. That Virginia Roberts came to stay with her for a number of days, I think it was over Halloween, and they had gone out and had dinner, just the two of them. And that she confided in her; Virginia Roberts confided in Rebecca that she had never wanted to mention me in any of the pleadings, but she was pressured by her lawyer into doing so. Rebecca then said that I was not the object of this effort. The object of the effort was a billionaire who lives in Columbus, Ohio, and who owns Victoria’s Secret and Limited Too. Rebecca told me she did not know the name of that billionaire, but that Virginia and her lawyers hoped to get one billion dollars, b-i-l-l-i-o-n, one billion dollars, or half of his net worth, from him by alleging that he had improperly engaged in sexual misconduct with Virginia Roberts. That money would be divided three ways: a third of it to Virginia Roberts, a third of it to a charity that she and her lawyers were setting up for battered women, and a third of it to the lawyers.
She then told me that they were trying to get ABC News to interview Virginia Roberts so as to give her credibility in order to pressure the billionaire from Columbus, Ohio, into paying a large sum of money. And that I was named as an effort to try to show the billionaire what could happen to somebody if they were accused of sexual misconduct. And that would encourage him to settle a lawsuit or pay money in exchange for his name not being mentioned or revealed. I had no idea about this. And I didn’t—I didn’t ask about this. She just stated this. And I then corroborated the fact that she was absolutely correct in everything she had said to me.
Q:You corroborated the fact that she was absolutely correct in everything that she had said to you?
A:That’s right.
Q:How?
A:Okay. Let me answer that question. I was very—I wasn’t sure, so I called Leslie Wexner. I got his wife on the phone, Abigail Wexner. Obviously I knew that the only billionaire in Columbus, Ohio, who owned Limited Too and who owned Victoria’s Secret was Leslie Wexner. I had met Leslie Wexner on two occasions, I think, and his wife. I called Abigail on the phone and I said, “I think you ought to know that there is an extortion plot being directed against your husband by unscrupulous lawyers in—in Florida.” And she said, “Oh, we’re aware of that; they’ve already been in contact with us,” which surprised me. But [her statement] was confirmation of that. I then also—I can’t give you the chronology of that. I then was in touch with ABC and found out she was absolutely correct about her efforts to try to get interviewed on ABC television. In fact, I learned that your client, Brad Edwards, had sent a communication to people in the area urging them to watch her interview that was scheduled to be on three television programs. If I’m not mistaken, it was [the] Good Day Show, the evening news, and the show Nightline….I then was in communication with ABC and helped to persuade them that they would be putting false information on the air if they allowed Virginia Roberts to tell her false story. So I was able to corroborate that. I then also corroborated the fact that she had never mentioned me when her boyfriend appeared on television and publicly stated that she had never mentioned me in any of her description[s] of people who she had sexual contact with. So I was then completely satisfied that Rebecca was telling me the complete truth. And that in my view, there was an extortion plot directed against Leslie Wexner, a criminal extortion plot directed against Leslie Wexner, and that your clients were involved in that extortion plot.
11:30 a.m.
Q:Let’s see if we can make sure that we’re understanding one another, sir. Do you recognize that there’s a distinction between Virginia Roberts having met you, having been sexually abused by you on multiple occasions, but not wanting to name you as opposed to Virginia Roberts never having met you and never having been sexually abused by you…? Are those two things different in your
mind?
A:Not in the context of this case. Because Virginia Roberts said that she was going to seek justice from everybody that had abused her. And if she didn’t want to name me, I think the inference is inescapable that I was not among those people that she had had any sexual contact with. So that was certainly the inference I drew….
11:35 a.m.
Q:Who are the people that Rebecca says Virginia had previously told her that Virginia was abused by?
A:I never asked her that question.
Q:Did you ask her was Les Wexner one of the people that abused Virginia?
A:I told you I never asked her the question.
Q:Are you aware that years before December of 2014, when the CVRA pleading was filed, that your name had come up repeatedly in connection with Jeffrey Epstein’s abuse of minors, correct?
A:I am aware that never before 2014, end of December, was it ever, ever alleged that I had acted in any way inappropriately with regard to Virginia Roberts, that I ever touched her, that I ever met her, that I had ever been with her. I was completely aware of that. There had never been any allegation. She claims under oath that she told you that secretly in 2011, but you have produced no notes of any such conversation. You, of course, are a witness to this allegation and will be deposed as a witness to this allegation. I believe it is an entirely false allegation that she told you in 2011 that she had had any sexual contact with me. I think she’s lying through her teeth when she says that. And I doubt that your notes will reveal any such information. But if she did tell you that, she would be absolutely, categorically lying. So I am completely aware that never—until the lies were put in a legal pleading at the end of December 2014, it was never alleged that I had any sexual contact with Virginia Roberts. I know that it was alleged that I was a witness to Jeffrey Epstein’s alleged abuse, and that was false. I was never a witness to any of Jeffrey Epstein’s sexual abuse. And I wrote that to you, something that you have falsely denied. And I stand on the record. The record is clear that I have categorically denied I was ever a witness to any abuse, that I ever saw Jeffrey Epstein abusing anybody. And—and the very idea that I would stand and talk to Jeffrey Epstein while he was receiving oral sex from Virginia Roberts, which she swore to under oath, is so outrageous, so preposterous, that even David Boies [a prominent lawyer associated with the firm representing Virginia Roberts] said he couldn’t believe it was true.