A Yes.
Q Activities which in your own rendering of the passage take the form of humping, am I correct?
A I, yes.
Q Now you stated earlier, did you not, your belief that an idea is protected in its expression against being copied in a vulgar and demeaning way?
A What I meant was . . .
Q Please answer the question. Was that your statement or not?
A Yes.
Q And that you find the word ‘humping’ a crude and vulgar term?
A Yes but . . .
Q So on the one hand you would enjoin Joe Blow from presenting what you consider a crude, vulgar, demeaning expression of an idea which you feel you have made your own, exalting it to a protected status through your own unique artistic expression, while on the other hand you have no hesitation at all in offering us a parable from one of the greatest minds in western history dressed in this manifestly crude, vulgar and hence debased version, with the temerity to label it homage into the bargain. Am I correct?
A . . .
Q I didn’t hear your answer. Will you repeat it please?
A That’s not what I meant.
Q I want an answer to the question.
A It’s nearer to parody, this passage.
Q Did you understand the question? I said parable, not parody.
MR. BASIE: He’s free to characterize it however he wants to.
MR. MADHAR PAI: Are you objecting? I want an answer to my question.
MR. BASIE: You asking him to characterize it as homage?
MR. MADHAR PAI: I am not asking him to characterize it as anything.
Q If you don’t understand the question, say you don’t. If you don’t know the answer, say I don’t know.
A I don’t know.
Q Will you explain why it is that you don’t know?
A It has to do with the subject matter, with the character. Will you let me explain?
Q I wish you would.
A Well, you see the character Gyges in Plato’s story, this story told by Glaucon that is, Gyges is a crude unlettered shepherd, earthy, greedy, sly, fundamentally dishonest like the character Bagby, Mr. Bagby in the play, so he uses vulgar language. It’s as if Gyges were telling his story himself instead of Glaucon, he’d use vulgar language, so it’s not me using vulgar language, it’s Bagby. The character Bagby.
Q Did you understand the question?
A We’re talking about characters defined through their dialogue, aren’t we? The three levels, from good men to bad, it’s all right there in the Poetics. They’re either above our level of goodness like the characters of Homer, like my character Mr. Kane, or about our own level, that’s the hero the audience identifies with here, or beneath it like Bagby, Mr. Bagby, who’s beneath our level of goodness like the characters of Nicochares, who wrote the Iliad . . .
Q We are stopping short of response here. I believe you have strayed into Aristotle, and this is not the lecture hall. We are here to talk about your play, whether it’s Defendants’ 1 or 6, and the way you have seen it purloined or made substantially similar or even debased in the work of another, and on the point of what you like and don’t like, what you find actionable or not actionable, I ask you again, do you understand the question?
A Well it’s not the same thing, you talk about debasing someone’s work with that one short passage from the Republic, if you look at the play, at the whole last act of the play? The scene with Kane in prison condemned to death when Thomas is trying to talk him into saving himself, it’s the Crito isn’t it? Right out of the Crito? And there’s nothing debased about . . .
Q Did you ever have a discussion with anyone with respect to the subject matter of the lawsuit?
MR. BASIE: What does the subject matter mean?
Q Do you understand my question?
A Well I ask the same question, what does subject matter mean?
Q I am not inclined to answer your questions, Mr. Crease. Do you understand my question?
A I wanted a clarification from you.
MR. BASIE: I think we all know that Mr. Crease has not seen the movie.
MR. MADHAR PAI: I don’t think that precludes his answering, but if you do, Mr. Basie, then he doesn’t know. I’m sure he has been advised what the movie is about. If he hasn’t, and you brought a lawsuit . . .
Q So that before you started the lawsuit, you personally made no investigation of what was actually portrayed in the film itself?
A I read some reviews.
Q Reviews customarily refrain from telling the ending, giving away the story so to speak. Was that the case here?
A I don’t know.
Q So accordingly you really have had no way to know whether or not the scene, this last act scene you’ve just cited, whether it or even some character in your play actually occurs in the film?
MR. BASIE: I don’t think you can defend an infringement on the grounds of what was not stolen.
MR. MADHAR PAI: Please don’t interrupt. Will you read it back?
(Question is read.)
A No.
Q So that all you claim are certain similarities you have come upon at second hand, is that correct?
A That’s what I’m talking about. I haven’t finished.
Q I want you to finish.
MR. BASIE: I am sorry, he can’t possibly finish. Not in these time limits.
MR. MADHAR PAI: He will have as much time as he likes.
MR. BASIE: He can answer that question only subject to later supplementation.
MR. MADHAR PAI: Is that because you want to talk to him before he goes on or because there isn’t enough time, Mr. Basie?
MR. BASIE: Because there are some similarities here that he is . . .
MR. MADHAR PAI: Are you testifying, Mr. Basie?
MR. BASIE: You asked me a question. I am giving you the reason.
MR. MADHAR PAI: No, I didn’t.
MR. BASIE: You asked me, is that because, and you were looking straight at me.
MR. MADHAR PAI: I meant the question which preceded it. Settle down.
MR. BASIE: Why should I settle down? You look at me and ask a question, when I start to answer you . . .
MR. MADHAR PAI: Why get excited?
MR. BASIE: It’s the truth, though, isn’t that exactly what happened?
MR. MADHAR PAI: I did speak to you, the preceding question was to your client.
MR. BASIE: I was objecting to it.
MR. MADHAR PAI: He didn’t tell me he didn’t have enough time. I thought he was the one under oath here. He said he wasn’t finished.
Q I said I would like you to finish. Go ahead.
MR. BASIE: I am saying that he cannot be bound by what he says at this deposition as to the question of similarities between the play and the movie.
MR. MADHAR PAI: What is the reason for that?
MR. BASIE: Because there are so many that it’s very easy for him to miss a few. If you are asking him to tell you every similarity that exists . . .
MR. MADHAR PAI: I am.
MR. BASIE: I will instruct him not to answer. My objection was simply that I believe you used the word ‘claim.’
MR. MADHAR PAI: Your problem was that I stated it in terms of something that had not yet been proven in the case?
MR. BASIE: No, in terms of something that would be his contention, claim.
MR. MADHAR PAI: As opposed to that which is deposited?
MR. BASIE: As opposed to that which merely asks him about what he recalls at present.
Q Would you tell us, then, what . . .
MR. BASIE: In other words, when you use the word ‘claim,’ it sounds like an attempt to, or maybe I misinterpreted it as an attempt to limit his further testimony, something which comes later in the litigation.
MR. MADHAR PAI: The record comprehensively reflects our respective positions, in my view. You felt that Mr. Crease should be at liberty until the moment the trial closes to add to his list of similarities, I thought.
MR
. BASIE: No, sir.
MR. MADHAR PAI: Then I did misunderstand you.
MR. BASIE: No. There is a later stage. Very often it is pretrial conference.
MR. MADHAR PAI: Up to that point then?
MR. BASIE: Yes.
MR. MADHAR PAI: I respectfully ask that he turn his attention to the task now and do it now, and you said to that, you directed him not to answer.
MR. BASIE: Yes. But only so as not to limit his testimony at the trial to what he . . .
A This may be a reason to postpone because I am getting tired.
Q We will stop right now. I would just like to know if there are any other forms of damage that you wish to have redressed in this lawsuit that we haven’t heard from you about?
A Well it’s both things, I tried to explain, on the one hand it’s taking the, it’s the theft of my play without giving me credit and on the other what offends me is when my work is, when vulgarity and grossness and stupidity debase my work.
Q What sum of money do you seek for that?
A I’m not, I have to talk to my lawyer about it. I don’t think it’s something you want me to answer right now.
MR. BASIE: It is stated in the complaint.
MR. MADHAR PAI: There is not a dollar figure stated in the complaint.
MR. BASIE: That’s right, because we don’t know.
Q Do you have a figure in mind of what you want?
A I haven’t really thought about it.
Q But you have thought . . .
A But I could very easily, yes.
Q Would you do it then?
A When the moment comes, yes.
Q This is the moment.
MR. BASIE: No, I don’t think so.
MR. MADHAR PAI: You don’t?
MR. BASIE: No.
MR. MADHAR PAI: What are we supposed to do, kind of tiptoe over this thing and maybe come to a special spot where we commune under a tree and you tell me about it?
MR. BASIE: For one thing, let me say to you that under the Copyright Act, you can make a choice of remedies after the trial.
MR. MADHAR PAI: Thank you. I would like to know what the witness’s number is right now, if he has got one.
Q Would you please do that?
MR. BASIE: He said he didn’t.
Q I’m asking you if you could do it now, if it’s that easy.
A I can’t.
Q You choose not to do it now?
A I choose not to do it now.
Q What are the reasons you choose not to do it now?
A Well it’s not, it’s very difficult for me to translate offense into money.
Q One last question occurs to me, Mr. Crease. Has it ever occurred to you to change your name?
MR. BASIE: Let me remind him he is still under oath, isn’t he?
MR. MADHAR PAI: Of course.
MR. BASIE: I direct him not to answer the question.
MR. MADHAR PAI: I think we can call it a day. The witness is released. Thank you, gentlemen.
—Read the Cratylus.
—What’s that, old fellow?
—I said read Plato’s dialogue Cratylus, arguing whether someone’s name is just a convenience or whether it expresses his true nature, if it doesn’t it’s not a name at all, change it any way you like.
—I’ll look it up, by the way old sport I think you’ve got hold of the wrong end of the stick there with the Sophists. It was Plato who turned the word into a term of opprobrium wasn’t it, slandered them the way he does there with Thrasymachus for his own purposes giving Socrates the high moral ground and all the rest of it? Always thought he was a bit of a fascist myself I’d like to chat with you about it some time, might even come out changing your name.
—I’d as soon change the shape of my nose.
—Had a client who did that once, wanted a nose bob and couldn’t afford one so she got herself the wrong way in a revolving door and sued. What do you say, Harold?
—I’ll take the Fifth.
—’Every dog is entitled to one bite.’ Is that true?
—Is it the law, you mean? No.
—Well then why would he say it. What?
What he’d actually just said was —I like your outfit, where she’d come striding naked across the bedroom.
—Do you Harry? rippling her arms outstretched, —I’ll get it in four colours. Meanwhile doesn’t it ever occur to you to water these plants when I’m not here? He drew in his feet where she came down on the end of the bed with the newspaper. Plants? Never occurred to him, no, they were just there, pleasant furnishings like those fluted candlesticks, like the lamps, that Piranesi, she wouldn’t expect him to go around watering lamps and pictures would she, one leg off to the floor and her knee drawn up parting the thatch to his gaze if he’d looked there before the newspaper interfered again with —Écrasez l’infame, of course the French are besotted by dogs, you remember those two giant hounds under the next table at Lipp’s you’d know they couldn’t resist it. Art vs negritude, the petit maître little James B they’re turning it into an intellectual cause célèbre and the Brits, of course, a stern letter to the Times from the Pit Ponies Protective Association, my God. Do you want la Repubblica? They call the miserable creature Frugoletta, its soulful eyes brimming with the wounded innocence of the oppressed the world over. I mean you know how they treat dogs.
—They’re an operatic people, Christina. In Vietnam you’d have Frugoletta on the lunch menu.
—No stop it, it’s just not funny anymore, those stupid local papers down there trying to make Father sound like a monster and these foreign papers pick up the headline and suddenly it’s an international incident, this stale cartoon of brutal Uncle Sam trampling the underdog. To turn a phrase, I mean my God, écrasez l’infame, why don’t they simply tear the hideous thing down. CYCLONE SEVEN SEEKS NEW HOME, that was a headline wasn’t it? why the Village went to court in the first place? They won their appeal didn’t they?
—No demolition permit.
—Well that’s ridiculous. You mean the Village can’t tear it down because they haven’t issued themselves a permit?
—Szyrk got a restraining order while he tries to take it to the high court so now everybody who was suing him is suing the Village, James B charging them with detaining and endangering Spot and now these animal rights people joining in with a writ for unlawful restraint, sort of a canine habeas corpus with some psychological expert testifying Spot’s having a nervous breakdown.
—Well isn’t it? simply ridiculous?
—But it takes a jury to say so. Little James B up there in his bandages telling them how he coaxed his beloved pet near enough to reach in and rescue him and snap, they corner Judge Crease and they’ve got their headline. EVERY DOG ENTITLED TO ONE BITE, SAYS JUDGE.
—Well my God, Father just lost his temper, he didn’t say it in court did he?
—Wasn’t even in his court, it’s hardly a Federal case but they got their headline, you think their readers are going to make those fine distinctions? The ones down there who can read in the first place I mean, taking a hell of a chance with his circuit court appointment but it almost sounds like he’s trying to get himself disqualified in the rest of these cases, these toymakers, the Free Spot game, the Spot dolls, figurines, keyrings and the rest of the junk with the insurance companies’ batteries of lawyers in there in no hurry to settle anything, business as usual that’s what they’re paid for. Now he’s got James B’s father going after these same animal rights people, posters, T shirts with their new logo, Spot framed by those steel teeth claiming free speech, fund raising in a public cause against Spot’s right to own, protect and commercially exploit his own name, likeness and persona following that Federal Appeals Court 1983 ruling for Carson in Carson v. Here’s Johnny Portable Toilets and their lawyers contending this right of publicity attaches only to real people, homo . . .
—Harry he’s a Federal judge! You mean with all the carnage going on in this country wherever you look that all the governme
nt can find to worry about is portable toilets?
—Not talking about portable toilets Christina we’re talking about millions of dollars, that’s what this country’s finally all about isn’t it? We’re talking about free speech, about the right of publicity, names, symbols, trademarks what this whole case that I’m on is all about. I just hope your father’s confirmed for the circuit court before he gets a chance to make any more headlines like this last one.
—Well my God, he simply lost his temper again do you blame him? Those obnoxious home town reporters down there bait him until they get another headline, you just said that yourself didn’t you? Vilify him any way they can since this whole idiotic business started, this vicious gossip about his drinking and his three packs of cigarettes a day and when one of them got in there and saw that ghastly praying hands thing upside down they accuse him of sacrilege on top of these snide innuendos about madness running in the family, digging up any lie they can about his father in this whole Civil War mess Oscar’s got himself into, printing whatever they like while you lie here stark naked and talk about free speech and Johnny’s portable toilets?
—You’re saying you want me to get dressed?
—I didn’t say that did I? running her hand along his ankle where it came down against her, and from there her eyes without pause back up the rest of him —no, no I like your outfit.
—Only colour it comes in Madam, you’d like it with the tassel? or without.
—Oh with! running her hand up his calf, over his rising knee as he reached out an arm —no don’t, don’t answer it let the tape run, you can break in if it’s important can’t you? and the grating echo of her own voice reciting the litany, the beep, and then a voice, a filtered imitation of a voice —Oh Teen? It’s Trish. It’s Trish Teen you’ve got to call me. I’ve tried and tried to reach Larry, your husband Larry? They pretended they didn’t know him and then they blamed me because they said I had his name wrong Teen I may have to go to prison. Even when I got his secretary he was always in conference or in court Teen it’s that wretched boy, these loathsome right to life people got hold of him and had a guardian appointed for the foetus and won a court order to stop the abortion and my lawyers don’t know what they’re doing, they won’t talk to me they just talk to each other and send me the bills and then one of them even had the impudence to call me at the hospital where Mummy died last night and I was snatched away from that marvelous new Basque restaurant everyone’s thronging to, a month in advance for a table unless you’re a rock star and of course it’s très cher with hordes of Japanese so it’s clear at a glance there’s not a soul you know all simply glaring at my diamonds, I should never have worn them, the ones that were literally torn off my throat that night in the elevator after that jubilee with Bunker? These clever insurance people had actually bought them back from the thieves if you can imagine, like these shady deals for these tiresome hostages you keep reading about in the papers, it was like seeing old friends and now they have the gall to ask for the money they gave me when they settled my perfectly legal claim, isn’t that why we pay these frightful premiums year after year in the first place? It just shows the lengths they’ll go to, it’s all sheer greed you almost want to lose your faith in human nature, I don’t know what this poor boy thinks he’s up to but oh, I have to tell you. I went back and bought that sweet little Lhasa, the one we saw in the pet store window coming back from the clinic? I’ve got to run, Bunker’s persuaded me to press charges against that pitiful creature who threw the catsup on my sables when we came out of the clinic thank God it wasn’t the chinchilla Mummy would kill me so I’ll miss the vernissage for what’s his name I can’t pronounce it, are you going? I hate to miss it but Bunker insists it’s our duty to stand up to these hordes who are out to destroy civilization Teen call me, I may need you. I hate to bother Larry but he may be all that stands between me and that island, Rikers is it? remember their sign NO FOOD AT ANY PRICE and those vile hamburgers at four in the morning the night Bim stole the hearse and we all went out to Jones Beach God, those were the good times weren’t they Teen, how could we know it would all turn into such a . . .