such as cannot be charged with the leastthought of treason, or so much as the least offence against the laws,except in what touches the secret practice of their religion. Womenhave, to my certain knowledge, been hung up by the hands in prisons(which do overflow with recusants, so that at this time thereremaineth no room for common malefactors), and cruelly scourged, forthat they would not confess by which priest they had been reconciledor absolved, or where they had heard mass. Priests are often torturedto force them to declare what they hear in confession, who harborpriests and Papists, where such and such recusants are to be found,and the like questions; and in so strenuous a manner, that needleshave been thrust under their nails, and one man, not long since, diedof his racking. O sirs and gentle ladies, I have seen with mine owneyes a youth, the son of one of my friends--young Mark Typper, born ofhonest and rich parents, skilful in human learning, having left hisstudy for a time, and going home to see his friends--whipped throughthe streets of London, and burnt in the ear, because, forsooth, aforward judge, to whom he had been accused as a Papist, and finding noproof thereof, condemned him as a vagabond. And what think you, goodpeople, of the death of Sir Robert Tyrwit's son, who was accused forhearing of a mass at the marriage of his sister, and albeit at thetime of his arrest in a grievous fever, was pulled out of the houseand thrust into prison, even as he then was, feeble, faint, andgrievously sick? His afflicted parents entreat, make intercession, anduse all the means they can to move the justices to have considerationof the sick; not to heap sorrow upon sorrow, nor affliction on theafflicted; not to take away the life of so comely a young gentleman,whom the physicians come and affirm will certainly die if he should beremoved. All this is nothing regarded. They lay hold on the sick man,pull him away, shut him up in prison, and within two days next afterhe dies. They bury him, and make no scruple or regard at all. O sirs,bethink you what these parents do feel when they hear Englishmen speakof the murders of Protestants in France as an unheard of crime. If, inthese days, one in a family of recusants doth covet the inheritance ofan elder brother--yea, of a father--he hath but to conform to the nowestablished religion (I leave you to think with how much of piety andconscience), and denounce his parent as a Papist, and straightway hedoth procure him to be despoiled, and his lands given up to him. Thusthe seeds of strife and bitter enmity have been sown broadcast throughthe land, the bands of love in families destroyed, the foundations ofhonor and beneficence blown up, the veins and sinews of the commonsociety of men cut asunder, and a fiendly force of violence and adeadly poison of suspicion used against such as are accused of noother crime than their religion, which they yet adhere to; albeittheir fortunes be ruined by fines and their lives in constantjeopardy from strenuous laws made yet more urgent by private malice.My friends, I would that not one hair of the head of so much as oneHuguenot had been touched in France; that not one Protestant hadperished in the flames in the late queen's reign, or in that of herpresent majesty; and also that the persecution now framed in thiscountry against Papists, and so handled as to blind men's eyes andwork in them a strange hypocrisy, yea and in some an innocent beliefthat freedom of men's souls be the offspring of Protestant religion,should pass away from this land. I care not how soon (as mine honoredfather-in-law, and in God too, I verily might add, was wont to say),--Icare not how soon I be sewn up in a bag and cast into the Thames, ifso be I might first see religious differences at an end, and men ofone mind touching God's truth."
Here this noble and courageous speaker ceased, and various murmursrose among the company. One lady remarked to her neighbor: "Amarvellous preacher that of seditious doctrines, methinks."
And one gentleman said that if such talk were suffered to passunpunished in her majesty's subjects, he should look to see massingand Popery to rear again their heads in the land.
And many loudly affirmed none could be Papists, or wish them well, andbe friends to the queen's government, and so it did stand to reasonthat Papists were traitors.
And another said that, for his part, he should desire to see them lessmercifully dealt with; and that the great clemency shown to such asdid refuse to come to church, by only laying fines on them, and notdealing so roundly as should compel them to obedience, did butmaintain them in their obstinacy; and he himself would as lief shootdown a seminary priest as a wolf, or any other evil beast.
I noticed this last speaker to be one of those who had spoken withmost abhorrence of the massacres in France.
One lady called out in a loud voice that Papists, and such as taketheir part, among which she did lament to see Mr. Roper, should beashamed so much as to speak of persecution; and began to relate thecruelties practised upon Protestants twenty years back, and theburning at Oxford of those excellent godly men, the bishops of Londonand Worcester.
Mr. Roper listened to her with an attentive countenance, and thensaid:
"I' faith, madam, I cannot choose but think Dr. Latimer, if it be heyou speak of, did somewhat approve of such a method of dealing withpersons obstinate touching religion, when others than himself andthose of his own way of thinking were the subjects of it, if we judgeby a letter he wrote in 1538 to his singular good friend the LordPrivy Seal Cromwell, at the time he was appointed to preach at theburning at Smithfield of Friar Forest of Greenwich, a learned divine Ioften did converse with in my young years."
"What wrote the good bishop?" two or three persons asked; and the ladywho had spoken before said she should warrant it to be somethingpious, for a more virtuous Protestant never did live than this holymartyr.
Whereupon Mr. Roper: "This holy bishop did open his discourse rightmerrily, for in a pleasant manner he thus begins his letter: 'And,sir, if it be your pleasure, as it is, that I shall play the fool inmy customable manner when Forest shall suffer, I would wish my stagestood near unto Forest; for I would endeavor myself so to content thepeople that therewith I might also convert Forest, God so helping.'And further on he doth greatly lament that the White Friars ofDoncaster had access to the prisoner, and through the fault of thesheriff or jailers, or both, he should be allowed to hear mass andreceive the sacrament, by which he is rather comforted in his way thandiscouraged. And _such is his foolishness_, this good dothhumbly say, that if Forest would abjure his religion, he should yet(for all his past obstinacy) wish him pardoned. O sirs, think you thatwhen at Oxford this aged man, seventeen years after, did see theflames gather round himself, that he did not call to mind what time hepreached, playing the fool, as he saith, before a man in like agonies,and never urged so much as one word against his sentence?"
"Marry, if he did not," said one, whom I take to have been SirChristopher Wray, who had been a silent listener until then, "if hisconscience pricked him not thereon, it must needs have been by thesame rule as the lawyer used to the countryman, who did put to himthis question: 'Sir, if my cow should stray into your field and feedthere one whole day, what should be the law touching compensationtherefor?' 'Marry, friend, assuredly to pay the damage to the full,which thou art bounden at once to do.' 'Ay,' quoth the countryman;'but 'tis your cow hath strayed into my field.' Upon which, 'Go to, goto,' cries the lawyer; 'for I warrant thee that doth altogether alterthe law.'"
Some smiled, and others murmured at this story; and meanwhile one ofthe company, who from his dress I perceived to be a minister, andmoreover to hold some dignity in the Protestant Church, rose from hisplace, and crossing the room, came up to Mr. Roper (for that boldspeaker was no other than Sir Thomas More's son-in--law, whose greatcharity and goodness I had often heard of), and, shaking hands withhim, said: "I be of the same mind with you, friend Roper, in everyword you have uttered tonight. And I pray to God my soul may be withyours after this life, and our end in heaven, albeit I should not sailthere in the same boat with thou."
"Good Mr. Dean," quoth Mr. Roper, "I do say amen to your prayer." andthen he added somewhat in a low voice, and methinks it was that thereis but one ship chartered for safety in such a voyage.
At the which the other shook his head and waved his hand, and thencal
ling to him a youth not more than twelve or thirteen years old, hisson, he did present him to Mr. Roper. I had observed this younggentleman to listen, with an eagerness betokening more keenness forinformation than is usually to be found in youths of his years, to thediscourses held that evening. His father told Mr. Roper that this hisson's parts and quick apprehension in learning did lead him to hope heshould be one day, if it pleased God, an ornament to the church. Mr.Roper smiled as he saluted the youth, and said a few words to him,which he answered very readily. I never saw again that father or thatson. The one was Dr. Mathews, whom the queen made Bishop of Durham;and the other, Toby Mathews, his son, who was reconciled some yearsago, and, as I have heard from some, is now a Jesuit.
The venerable aspect of the good Mr. Roper so engaged