Q The woman attracted you, more than the man. And it was after ten?
A It was after ten.
Q Could it have been closer to eleven?
A It could have been, but it seems it was closer to ten, because it wasn’t too long after I came back from eating.
Q What kind of car were this man and woman in?
A It was a dark green Oldsmobile, it was a ’55 or ’56, and more than likely, a ’55, by the paint. It was a real dull finish, and the paint was like it had never been waxed.
Q What type of body?
A Sedan.
Q Do you know the difference in the Oldsmobile series, between the regular line and the Holiday series?
A Yeah. I know the Holiday is a longer car.
Q Is it your impression this was, or was not a Holiday?
A This was not.
Q It was not?
A Uh huh.
Q You recall we talked to you last night, over at Stan’s, and it seems like you said something—it was a possibility it might have been two-toned?
A It is possible. If it was two-toned, it was all green—a lighter shade of green and a darker green.
Q What is your best recollection, at this particular time? You have probably thought about it since we talked to you last night, along those lines, as to whether it was or was not a two-tone.
A I still feel it was a two-tone.
Q The bottom part being the darkest of the two colors?
A Uh huh.
Q You said that this woman is the one that attracted your attention the most? Why was that?
A Well, usually you walk up to a car and you ask them if they want a menu, and they say yes, or they say no. But she didn’t know what she wanted. But she said, “I want a sandwich, the smallest sandwich you got.” And I started to say, “A hot dog?” and she says, “Thinnest sandwich you have.” I said, “That will be a grilled cheese.” She said, “Okay”. He didn’t say anything, and I waited for him to order, and he said, “Just coffee.” And I took the order. And when I went to pick up the tray, I noticed the ring— the way she was sitting. She was smiling and laughing all the time, real gay.
Q Excuse me. You said you noticed the ring, the way she was sitting?
A When I was at his window, the ring was on this finger, so I could see that. (Indicating.)
Q Indicating by that, you mean your wedding ring finger?
A Uh huh.
Q On her left hand?
A Uh huh.
Q Can you describe that ring?
A It was an enormous pearl, it was so big.
Q Anything else, in particular, about it?
A It looked really bigger, I guess, because the way her hand was. It looked like it went all the way around, because I could see the big part of the pearl.
Q Anything in addition to the pearl?
A No, just the pearl, and the dress she had on. The blue dress—I noticed that.
Q Again, if you recall, we showed you a coat that has two different types of material, the outside being linen, kind of dark blue, and the inside lining a silk material, like varied-colored blue.
A That’s what it was, a blue print dress.
Q The cloth that you saw, that lined this coat that we showed you last night, was the same material?
A As the dress.
Q Was it your impression that this woman had been drinking?
A Yes, she was—oh, I’d say, pretty drunk.
Q You’d say she was pretty drunk?
A Uh huh.
Q How about the man?
A No, he wasn’t. If he was drunk, he didn’t show it. He seemed very sober.
Q Can you describe this woman to us?
A She was thin, with short dark red hair and very pleasant—real nice personality, or seemed to have. The kind you look twice at her.
Q How old a woman do you think she was?
A I don’t know. I am not a very good judge of ages.
Q Well, as I recall, you are 29.
A I’d say she was older than I am.
Q How much older than you?
A Gee, I don’t know.
Q Well, could she have been 40 years old, in your opinion?
A She could have been.
Q I don’t want to put ideas in your mind, I want your best recollection, just trying to help you recollect, a little bit. How about the man, what did he look like?
A Dark, very thin. Thin face, had dark hair, hair combed straight back.
Q You say dark hair. Could it have been dark brown, or black?
A It was either black, or awfully dark brown.
Q Did it appear that he used some kind of preparation on it, that made it lay down?
A Oh, to make it lay down, maybe. I didn’t notice much. He had quite a thick head of hair. It wasn’t thick—it was receded back, a little bit. But he still had quite a bit of hair on top.
Q Lay down flat on top?
A Uh huh.
Q How old do you think he was?
A In his thirties—middle thirties, past.
Q Between thirty-five and forty, possibly?
A Uh huh.
Q What nationality would you think he might be?
A She, of course, I didn’t think about her being anything but just American—but for him, I’d take him for a Greek or Italian.
Q Greek or Italian. Is it possible he might have been Mexican or Spanish-type, Latin-type?
A He could have been. (Pause.) His tan was, seemed like he wasn’t dark enough to be a Mexican. ’Course, I know there’s lots of light ones, but—
Q Was there anything particular about the condition of her clothing, at this time?
A No, I didn’t notice. I noticed the dress she had on, when I first waited on them. I know it was low-necked, because the light was shining.
Q About this car. Since we have talked to you last night, have you thought of anything, at all, that might be distinguishing about the car, that could help us?
A No, I thought about the car, last night. I thought, too, it must have had a California license on it. If it had been an out-of-state license, I would have noticed it. We work for tips, and about 99% of the out-of-state cars, you never make anything out of, so you notice them. And I didn’t notice that the car didn’t have the California license on it, so chances are that it did.
Q How about dented fenders, or broken grill work, or anything like that? Do you recall anything—
A (Interrupting) I just noticed that the paint, the finish, was so dull.
Q Did you hear them—after they finished their order and paid you and left—did you hear or see them leave?
A No.
Q Did you, at any time, hear the car running?
A Huh uh. The car wasn’t running when I went to pick up the tray.
Q And you didn’t hear them drive away?
A No.
Q In other words, you wouldn’t know whether it had loud pipes or anything like that on it?
A No.
Q Then, I understand that you saw this car again, later on. When was that?
A Sunday morning, after the bar was closed. It must have been around 2:15 or a little after, because we don’t usually get a crowd in there until about 2:15. But usually the lot’s full by 2:15, and they parked in back, almost to the back, right where we have the light shining over on the side, on her. And I went back to the car, and of course, asked them if they wanted a menu. She spoke up and said she wanted a bowl of chili and a cup of coffee. And I stood there, waiting for him to order, and I guess I wouldn’t have noticed him—I waited for him to order, and finally he said, “Just coffee.”
Q You said she ordered a bowl of chili?
A Uh huh.
Q Just chili, or chili and beans?
A Just chili and coffee.
Q Would there be some beans in the chili, though?
A Yes, always. That’s always served as chili and beans. We don’t serve straight chili.
Q What was her condition, at this time?
r /> A She was a little drunker than she was the first time, but she was still very pleasant. She wasn’t nasty. Real pleasant to wait on, gay and laughing, and when I picked up the tray, she said something—I tried to remember what she said to me, or to him, but I can’t remember what she said, and who she was talking to, but she said something and laughed, and I smiled at her, and I couldn’t remember what she said.
Q What was the condition of her clothing, at this time?
A Her clothes were all right, except for the front of her dress. ’Course, the way the dress was made, I could see practically the whole breast, one side.
Q It wasn’t covered by a brassiere?
A No, I couldn’t see no brassiere. I could see something white, that I took for a slip, with a little white lace on it.
Q Could that have been her brassiere, pushed down?
A It could have been, but they don’t usually have lace on them.
Q Could you see her feet, at all?
A No, I couldn’t see her feet. I could have, if I had looked, but I didn’t. I have to reach quite a ways inside the car, to get the trays out, and put the inside trays in.
Q What impression did you get, at this time, regarding her appearance, as to what her activity had been, just prior to coming in, on this occasion?
A Oh, I don’t know. She didn’t look much different than she did the first time I saw her. I got a better look at her because I was on her side of the car.
Q Could it have been possible that, because of the appearance that you have just described her as being in, the clothing, that they could have just come from a petting party somewhere?
A They could have. It is possible.
Q She gave no indication, at this time, that she was upset or mad, or anything?
A No, she was very pleasant, very gay. She was laughing. The picture of her smiling, I remembered so well, because she laughed all the time.
Q He didn’t smile any?
A No, he seemed very bored with it. Except, I had to wait for a minute for him to pay me. The last time I waited on him, I waited again, so I went up and told him how much the bill was. I had to wait a few minutes, ’fore he had the money in his hand, and gave me a dollar bill. I gave him change, walked around to the other side of the car. The tip he left was on the tray.
Q How did he pay you, each time? Both times with a dollar bill?
A I don’t remember the first time, but I remember the last time.
Q Do you recall whether he took it out of his pocket, or out of a wallet?
A He had it in his hand, but it was a few minutes before he gave it to me, when I told him what the amount was.
Q Have you ever seen these persons before, either one of them?
A Not that I remember. I don’t remember ever seeing them, before.
Q Is there any doubt in your mind, since we have talked to you the first time, and showed you the article of clothing and the pictures that we have of this woman, that they belong to and are the same person that you waited on that night?
A There is no doubt of it.
Q If you saw this man again, would you be able to identify him?
A I am quite sure I would. I remember him, in my mind. There is nothing so outstanding about him that I could describe him, no features that would point him out in a crowd. But I know, in my mind, what he looks like.
Q Well, you said he had a thin face. Was it an extremely thin face?
A It was like Italian or Greek—a nose like that. And thin, real thin face.
Q Did you get any impression that he might have had false teeth, or not?
A No.
Q You know, sometimes, people that have false teeth— either in or out—their jaws kind of sag, around here. Did you get that impression?
A No, I didn’t.
Q Nothing other than the thinness?
A No.
BY SGT. HALLINEN:
Q You have probably given this considerable thought, since we talked to you yesterday. Would you describe, if you can, the man’s clothing?
A It was light, that’s all I can remember. It was a jacket, or something with long sleeves, and it was light.
Q You are fairly certain it was light?
A Uh huh.
Q On the sport side, or would it be of the regular suit type?
A No, it wasn’t a suit. It was some kind of a jacket. I’d say it was a sport jacket.
Q You don’t know the color of his trousers?
A No.
Q Do you recall whether he had a shirt on, light or dark?
A He had a shirt on, but I don’t recall that—I don’t remember if it was light or dark.
Q Would you be able to recognize a car similar to this one?
A Oh, yeah.
Q In other words, you’d be able to tell a car, whether it was similar, or not similar?
A I could tell, I’d know. I probably couldn’t pick the car out, that particular car, but if I saw a car like it, I could tell.
Q You feel, at that time you’d know, when you saw it, whether the car you have in mind for this car would be two-toned or one-toned?
A Uh huh.
Q Did you notice whether either one of them smoked, while they were in there?
A I never noticed.
Q Going back to this man’s features, was his skin swarthy, or regular, smooth, in your opinion?
A It was smooth, it was dark.
Q Would he be a light-complected man?
A No, he was a dark-complexioned man.
Q But light skin?
A No, his skin wasn’t light, but it wasn’t dark. Not like you see a real dark Mexican, like that. It was a dark skin, like an Italian.
Q You mentioned the hair as being black, and straight back?
A Uh huh.
Q And also, that it receded at the forehead?
A Slight—receded slightly. Not very much.
Q And a thick head of hair, though?
A Yes, his hair was quite thick on top.
Q Was there anything distinguishable about his ears?
A I don’t remember.
Q Outstanding, or—
A (Shook head from left to right.)
SGT. LAWTON: One other thing. Did you notice whether he wore any kind of jewelry, such as rings?
A No, I didn’t notice.
SGT. LAWTON: Thank you very much. STATEMENT CONCLUDED AT 4:15 P.M.
A region-wide teletype went out Wednesday night. It summarized the Ellroy case 72 hours in.
It mentioned the victim’s missing purse and undergarments, the male suspect, the blond woman and the ’55—’56 Olds. All police agencies with information were directed to contact Sheriff’s Homicide or the El Monte PD.
A California Highway Patrol man called in a tip at 10:10 p.m. The El Monte PD desk man logged it.
The CHP man knew a “dark Latin type” with a two-tone Olds. The guy hung out around Five Points. His vehicle had press photographer plates and a whip antenna. The dark Latin type had a surly disposition and liked to monitor police radio calls. The CHP man said he’d get his plate number and call it in.
The teletype drew heat fast. Dead white women always stirred things up.
Thursday morning.
Vickers and Godfrey concluded their canvassing and reached the last of their callback people. The victim’s Saturday-night whereabouts were now halfway sketched in.
Hallinen and Lawton sent a RUSH query to the California DMV. They requested stats on all ’55 and ’56 Oldsmobiles registered to San Gabriel Valley owners. They sent a second RUSH order, to the Sheriff’s Records Bureau.
They requested mug shots and file data on registered sex offenders resembling the dark man. Their suspect was most likely Caucasian—but he could be a racial Latin. They added notes on the suspect’s vehicle and the crime itself: beating, strangulation, probable rape. Their victim was a 43-year-old white woman known to frequent cocktail bars.
Lavonne Chambers and Margie Trawick were transported to the Hall of J
ustice. A deputy helped them construct Identi-Kit portraits of the suspect.
The Identi-Kit was a new device. Witnesses picked out individual features printed on cardboard strips and built mix-and-match faces from memory. There were dozens of chins, noses, hairlines and mouths to build from. Skilled technicians helped the witnesses put them together.
The deputy worked with Lavonne and Margie separately. The result was two similar—but distinctly differentiated—faces.
Lavonne’s man looked like a lean-faced average guy. Margie’s man looked vicious.
A sketch artist was brought in. He sat down with both witnesses and elicited separate portraits of the suspect. His third run-through melded features from the two previous versions. Lavonne and Margie agreed: He’s the guy we saw.
The sketch man mimeographed copies of the picture and gave them to Hallinen and Lawton. They routed them to the Information Bureau—to be included in a press release on the Ellroy homicide.
A deputy drove Lavonne and Margie home. Hallinen and Lawton arranged to interview the victim’s co-workers and search her house again.
The case was four days old.
Thursday afternoon.
Jim Bruton called a contact at the El Monte Unified School District. The man gave him Peter Tubiolo’s home number.
Bruton called Tubiolo and asked him to come to the station—for the purpose of answering a few questions. The matter to be discussed was the Jean Ellroy murder.
Tubiolo agreed to come in that afternoon. He stressed that he hardly knew the woman. Bruton told him it was just routine and assured him that the interview would remain confidential.
A time was set. Bruton called Hallinen and Lawton and told them to drive out. They said they’d bring Margie Trawick and let her take a look at the man.